Tricksey Trapsey! (Mouse .. Traps? )

[evilkinggumby]

I had to create a thread on this becausse there is so much to consider when hearing from Seith on his recent blog post

*Implemented traps game mechanics

I don't know if he's just adding a sick joke or a truly fun way to play the game.. or.. get played by the game.

Would you like the ability to built and set traps for enemies?



Would you be ok seeing the Hero Mouse get caught in a hidden trap, flailing in the air from a snare, or pinned fown by a bear trap? Maybe conked by a rolling/swinging log?

How do you regard traps in games and what kinds do you love/hate to see?



This inclusion may become a minor, or major, part of the game play. I'd love to see what you the fans are interested in seeing.

[david]

If there are to be traps, I know Seith will avoid the "random death syndrome". So player will have (some) warning there is a trap or danger in the area.

As for the flipside, the player trapping enemies, this would be a really interesting system. I would really like using the game's systems to maneuver enemies into traps, pushing them off ledges, luring them into damaging fires or drowning water, or near other dangerous enemies (so they will fight it out).

As we know, our hero mouse is physically weak, so he'll have to be quick, stealthy... and clever... to defeat his enemies on Periclave

[evilkinggumby]

As for the flipside, the player trapping enemies, this would be a really interesting system. I would really like using the game's systems to maneuver enemies into traps, pushing them off ledges, luring them into damaging fires or drowning water, or near other dangerous enemies (so they will fight it out).

I actually really loved the Tecmo's Deception series and that is all about traps (though I also loved the old Dungeon Keeper games, which had some traps in it). I don't think he would go too crazy, anbd I'd prefer not to have the game turn into some type of strategic tower defense game (no indications, just putting it out there). But I rather love the idea you'll have some traps at your disposal (or that you can scavenge bits to build). Especially if depending on the components it can tweak the traps effects.

Snap Trap: hold a minor enemy in place for 2 seconds, minor damage.
Clamp Trap: Hold minor and Medium enemies for 4 seconds, pinning them in place. Minor damage and chance to stun/panic.
Bear Trap: kills minor enemies, holds medium and large enemies for 6 seconds with a greater chance to panic medium enemies and slow large enemies for an additional 3 seconds as they drag it. Modest Damage.

Modifiers:

Poisonberry: inflicts a slow damage over time poison to target. Effectiv eon small to medium enemies.
Greater Toxin: Inflicts rapid poison, shorter duration but higher damage. Effective for medium to large enemies.
Fire Ant powder Keg: Target catches fire for 2-3 seconds, taking damage and possible extended panic. Effective on Small to Medium enemies.
Tar soaked Fire ant Powder Keg: similar to the normal Fire And Powder Keg, this coats the enemy in flammable tar so the flames engulf longer and hotter. Effective on medium to large enemies. Chance for AOE minor burn damage to nearby enemies/player.
Honeysuckle: Enemy is entranced and loses aggro to player once traps is free. Re-aggro after 5 seconds. Only effective on Small enemies.
Blackberry Wine: target slowed, confused. Greater chance to stumble. Minor chance to sleep. Only effective on Small to medium enemies.
Bloodberry Wine: stronger brew, greater chance to stumble and good chance for sleep. Effective on medium to large enemies.
Frostberry WIne: Target is snap frozen for 2 seconds (chance to shatter if hit) and then slowed and frosty for 5 seconds after free. Works on small to medium enemies, Large enemies slowed for 2 seconds.
ThistleBomb: Target is pinned, then trap detonates after 2 seconds, damaging target and any other nearby enemies (and possibly player) with thistle barbs. Trapped target is free but knocked down briefly from explosion. (small enemies)
Greater Thistlebomb: Similar to the original, this version detonates with greater force and a wider radius. Effective on Medium to Large Enemies.
IhazPie Spring: spring-loaded pie in the face trap that mostly is just fun. Blinds/stuns enemy for 3 seconds, triggers player mouse and other enemies giggling. (small to medium enemies only)

I realize that's way more than Seith likely expects to implement. But maybe some of those will give him ideas.. hehehe. And that's just how it'd work on a ground foot trap. Other stuff like snares, cages, spring walls and branches, dropping objects, etc could add oodles of variety. As well adding more traps to the game could be post launch free DLC.

[david]

I'd prefer not to have the game turn into some type of strategic tower defense game (no indications, just putting it out there). But I rather love the idea you'll have some traps at your disposal (or that you can scavenge bits to build).

@EvilKing... On the above points, I totally agree with you. I think traps will (and should) be a smaller, but fun, part of the overall GOAT gameplay.

As usual, your creativity is mindblowing! Items exactly like you describe: drop cages, falling objects, pull up snares (imagine the mouse or other creature twitching as they hang upside down from the lasoo), spring walls/branches, bear traps, swinging/rolling logs, berries, kegs, etc. would all fit well inside (what we know of) the GOAT world. These would be great fun, if used sparingly.

From my understanding so far, Seith will include some light-RPG elements. But I think he'll keep the exact damage calculations hidden from the player, so that the GOAT experience will be more cinematic and immersive.

[evilkinggumby]

From my understanding so far, Seith will include some light-RPG elements. But I think he'll keep the exact damage calculations hidden from the player, so that the GOAT experience will be more cinematic and immersive.

That's what I figured. I don't expect to have tons of stats and numbers showing everything so much as an overall implementation. Much like Zelda and other games, you sort of learn over time (naturally) what is effective against certain enemies. What I was listing would be akin to that learning curve. You figure out that over time using a smaller "starter" trap on a medium to large enemy results in it just breaking apart and no real effect, whereas later if a small enemy stumbles into the bear trap you set for some large baddie, you see a insta-kill (and a bit of a wasted trap). A lot of the damage can be handled behind the scenes (in terms of calculations) and aside from alternate animations or particle effects (or the liquid fire type effects he hinted at) it wouldn't be always readily apparent. I mean at first you may not realize there is a "chance to trip" associated with a trap, or the rare chance to put them to sleep.

I figured Seith will likely employ a handful of traps or less and they'll be of the more basic nature, where you get to use them but it doesn't change or rob you of the overall experience. But I do see why he would have them, when it comes to solving puzzles and working out how to navigate a situation, traps add a whole new element and realm of possibilities. Who do you try and trap, and how? Should you lure them into a trap, or risk placing it in their expected path?

[david]

I don't expect to have tons of stats and numbers... Much like Zelda and other games, you sort of learn over time (naturally) what is effective against certain enemies... I figured Seith will likely employ a handful of traps or less... traps add a whole new element and realm of possibilities.

I could not agree more, this is my 100% thinking too

[Seith]

He he. Lots of very interesting back and forth here, as usual. Keep it coming guys...

[evilkinggumby]

He he. Lots of very interesting back and forth here, as usual. Keep it coming guys...

Have you a vague notion of how many or what kinds of traps you want to implement? Are they all "craftable" type traps or would they also be environmental ones as well? I ask this with the idea of certain environmental traps existing around the various levels/areas and a keen eye (or if you pick up the ability) you can see those potential traps.



Hero mouse walks into a narrow stand of trees and in the distance there is a lightly armored sentinal rat pacing up and down the corridor of forest you need to pass through. Taking a moment to smell out the area you see a faint glow to a hornet's nest on a high branch you could likely use against it(by shooting it down with a clever arrow, or possible attaching a tripwire to the nest so it "shakes" it loose when the rat steps through it). Also on the left down a ways you see a large knothole nest that would be great to hide a small arrow launcher trap and a trigger pad(finally a use for those snoozeberries!) . And directly in front of you, because of years of water run off in the spring the ground slopes to the right a bit and dips down, a natural place to have the rat fall into a pit. Which do you use? Or do you use all? Only tact, skill, and timing would determine.

I love the ideas of having "made" traps that you can carry and place, but I also like knowing and using the world around you to be crafty as well. Lashing branches back to whip enemies for a brief stun or knockdown, dropping dead branches up high that are heavy (but barely attached), toppling boulders down channelled cliffsides, etc etc. If the hero mouse end sup having to use all of its whits and skillz, speed, crafty thinking, clever preparation, silent movement, an d sheer determination in combat to get through the adventure I think the game will have a great variety and depth for players AND still tell a compelling story.

But that's just me. Would still be kool to see others chime in on traps and if they'd love or hate them.