Dungeon Kingdom & Thanks

Here you can chat about anything you like.
Post Reply
kanda
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:10 am

Hello dudes,

I wanted to thanks you for two reasons:

First i launched my own indiegogo campaign for my RPG dungeon crawler ( http://igg.me/at/dungeonkingdom ) and your campaign for Ghost of a tale has been a nice source of inspiration to help preparing it. you made an awsesome work.

secondly, you game is very nice and refreshing, i can't wait ti play it. I only regret i didn't know your campaign earlier. But i'll definately purchase it when it's available !!

Great work !!!
Bon boulot, bravo !

kanda / Frédéric

Image
User avatar
david
'Ghost of a Tale' Community Manager
'Ghost of a Tale' Community Manager
Posts: 370
Joined: Mon May 20, 2013 4:07 am
Contact:

hi Kanda, nice to hear from you and thank you! :D

I took a look at your IGG campaign and video for Dungeon Kingdom campaign with interest: you might know that Seith was a fan of Grimrock. I really like the 2d inventory/3d gameworld interaction mechanic that you have... very slick.

Wishing your game every success! :mrgreen:
kanda
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:10 am

david wrote:hi Kanda, nice to hear from you! :D

I took a look at the Dungeon Kingdom campaign with interest. You might know that Seith was a great fan of Grimrock. I really liked the 2d inventory/3d gameworld interaction... very slick. Wishing your game every success! :mrgreen:
Thanks. And i am looking forward to try your game!
We some luck, we may meet someday into a developer meeting here in france.
Keep up the good work!

fred / kanda
User avatar
evilkinggumby
Original backer
Original backer
Posts: 297
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:13 am

Looks solid and very detailed. I like the design though it feels almost too much like Grimrock to me, which makes me wonder what you are bringing that is truly going to make it feel like a stand out NEW game and not a clone. I see the physics applied, high ceilings and awesome portraits.

Also am not crazy that the campaign doesn't offer any details about most of the teams experience in terms of specifics. I can honestly say I usually will not back an effort where the team is vague about their skillset (even if the prototype work is solid) because of all the occurances popping up where a kickstarter/indiegogo campaign turned out an shoddy/incomplete product to steam. I'm not accusing you guys of it, but more of a "you may want to keep this in mind" thing.

**edit** wow i just looked and I've backed 32 projects successfully on kickstarter (2 of which are not games, the rest are video games) and 9 projects that failed to reach their goal. On Indiegogo I've backed only a handful (4) on Indiegogo of which 2 were games(one of which seems to have gone silent/abandoned).


I wish you tons of luck on this and I'll keep an eye on the indiegogo for the time being. I hope you guys get your goal and can see a dream come to fruition. The fact Seith inspired ya'll in itself is just awesome.
Image
kanda
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:10 am

evilkinggumby wrote:Looks solid and very detailed. I like the design though it feels almost too much like Grimrock to me, which makes me wonder what you are bringing that is truly going to make it feel like a stand out NEW game and not a clone. I see the physics applied, high ceilings and awesome portraits.

Also am not crazy that the campaign doesn't offer any details about most of the teams experience in terms of specifics. I can honestly say I usually will not back an effort where the team is vague about their skillset (even if the prototype work is solid) because of all the occurances popping up where a kickstarter/indiegogo campaign turned out an shoddy/incomplete product to steam. I'm not accusing you guys of it, but more of a "you may want to keep this in mind" thing.

**edit** wow i just looked and I've backed 32 projects successfully on kickstarter (2 of which are not games, the rest are video games) and 9 projects that failed to reach their goal. On Indiegogo I've backed only a handful (4) on Indiegogo of which 2 were games(one of which seems to have gone silent/abandoned).

I wish you tons of luck on this and I'll keep an eye on the indiegogo for the time being. I hope you guys get your goal and can see a dream come to fruition. The fact Seith inspired ya'll in itself is just awesome.
I am sorry about the details for the team you are right. We are experienced, all of us worked on many games and appliation on console, pc mobiles. But most of us don't have a real portfolio to show.

You can check this one for the 3D artist:
http://julienno.free.fr/3D.html

You can check a few of my work on my youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 28DC7E8112
or my linked profile:
https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=11151983

and my website, which is mainly for applications and not up to date (i prefer spend my time developing ^^):
http://www.hydro-games.com
the site above is not complete as most of the work are under NDA.

The 2D artist who made the portrait and title has no website, but has also a long history working on games, including several indie (check Blood Star currently under development)

Hope it will help you to get more confident.

About comparing to grimrock, i'll give you a bit more details:

-Multi-platform: From the begining, the game was designed with all the target platform in minde. And believe me, it's not an easy problem to face. So big range of gpu power, screen resolutions, screen ratios...! And i didn't want to sacrify the gameplay to run on any specific platform. The only adjustments are for the OculusRift version, as of course we can't have so many UI controls, which would break the immersion the device is made for. Also, as a small team, we can't afford to create many version of the user interface, so we had to find tips the keep the same system working everywhere.

-Real physics. As a few dudes told us, they didn't miss real physics engine in grimrock, but when seeing our videos with torch falling in the stairs or throwing items freely with realistic animation make sense and is very nice. I would add, that it's also a great source for new kind of puzzles.

-Cross platform features. As an example, saved games sharing ! You can start playing on PC, get your saved game from the cloud and continue playing on your tablet at the office during you lunch break.

-New kind of interactions: i will only give one for now, but you can burn some elements in the environments. Again, it's giving us some new gameplay possibilities!

-We have a real story design. The player won't be crawling in the corridors without any plot.And by story, it's not just a quick designed one.
We plan to make several games in the world of Dungeon Kingdom, and we created a complete world with an history. The game is starting at the the dawn of the fourth age, in the land of pohe fakesys, created by the Adwij godness. The key events of the previous age are already documented !

-We think about newcomers to real time dungeon crawlers, so we have several play mode to fit any player experience.

-We have continuous levels. When you go down the stairs or fall in a pit, there is no fading screen or loading (except for major environments change). We wanted to break the flow. Also, again, it's a source of new gameplay possibilities. Just giving you a simple example: In Dungeon Kingdom, you can see what is happening in the level beneath you, is there is a grid on the floor under your feet. you can imagine stacking some rocks on a closed pit in front of you, and opening it at the right time when the creature arrives under that pit! More generally speaking, we want to give the player the opportunity to use the environment so he won't be forced to always fight. I can tell you, the doors which hurts some creatures going through it are back in Dungeon crawlers! We didn't see it since Dungeon Master and we are happy for our players, especialy the feature has been requested to us a few times !

-Despite the grid constraint when moving, well suited for mobile, but also on pc for fast action accuracy required by real time dungeon crawlers, we have nos restriction on height axis: you can imagine taking an elevator, falling from a cliff...It's not so common in realtime dungeon crawler, and a great feature to have for our level design.

-NPC : in Dungeon Kingdom, we are not alone in the game. We'll meet some NPC, and they will be an important connection to the Story.

-Different environments. I don't want to spoil, but i think player will be surprised by what is awaiting them.

-We think that Dungeon Crawlers main factor for being attractive is not only graphics, but also the tension, ambiance and immersion. And we care very much to them. The ones who played Chaos Strikes Back will understand what i am talking about without any doubt. We work a lot on details, but also about how surprise the player, to avoid him to quickly get bored.

Hope it will help you to get what is our vision for Dungeon Kingdom: Sign of the Moon. ;)

Regards.
kanda
User avatar
evilkinggumby
Original backer
Original backer
Posts: 297
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:13 am

Wow thanks Kanda, thats a lot of clarification. I think it'd be good to detail a lot of that in a more public way on the indiegogo site. right now, without giving all of your teams credentials like that, you're underselling your capabilities and talent, and that's a shame!

It sounds like this could be a nice stand out game when it is completed. I'm curious, I know you mentioned a few environments, do you think the game will vary a bit between close quarter classic dungeon crawler style and a few areas or caverns that are more open and have potential atmospheric/weather type effects? One thing that I rarely see in these games is a secrtion set up like a hedge maze or labyrinth where you are still confined by the walls but in looking up you can see the sky and potentially also have weather effects add to the area. Walking around in the dark has it's charm, don't get me wrong, but having a short stint in a cavern with, say, an open hole to the world above and light shining through (or an area of the maze that is always raining because it is under a crack in the mountain by a waterfall) would be really kool and add some nice variety. You mention how far and vast the dungeon world sprawls, and all I could imagine is these tunnels stretching from coast to coast, under a whole variety of different landscapes, and this would be great to utilize as the player works through i. Imagine being able to step up from the dungeon into say an abandoned chapel in the frosty mountains and having to explore and navigate it (and having the cold light of winter coming through stained glass windows) only to again return into the depths because the church is 1/2 buried in snowdrifts and ice and you cannot escape. The player would feel a brief sense of hope and excitement " i got out!!" but then realize later it was just for a moment and onwards they go. Breaking up the "crawl" in these ways could really help with the overall game, plot, and stand out from other similar games out there. Having a few of these types of moments would be right fun.

If what I am hinting at is totally 180 degree counter to your plans then thats fine, I don't expect every crazy idea out of my mouth to actually happen. :) But when I can I try an toss stuff at dev's just in case it inspires them a bit.

good luck and I'll pitch for the game. I didn't see a physical tier, so I guess thats not on the books? Maybe down the road you'll submit the game to Indiebox.com? :)
Image
kanda
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:10 am

@evilkinggumby:

I added a few links indiegogo pitch about me and the 3d artist, so people car learn more about us. Thanks your input, you were right about this, it's important for our future pledgers to know more about the team.

Well about the environment, i don't want to spoil usually, but anyway we are going to unveiling some new environment soon: we have one outdoor environment planned. There may be more if we raise enough funds, but for now, we have one.

-So the outdoor one is a mountain environment, with lot of relief, snow tempest (strong wind!).
-The first environment in the game is a temple, not an underground one, more like some high towers with marble. From the windows, you can see moutains and snow...Very atmospheric...!

You start to the temple, will reach the undergrounds for some reason related to the story, and have to find a way to get out, reach an exit in the mountains, and finally reach the fortress of Leth, the dark templar, a chaos lord working for Kisanth dragon who lost a battle against the godness Adwij, a 300 years lenght battle, at the second age. Adwij has split kisanth's spirit in 6 parts, spread over the land of pohe-fakesys.

As you can see, surprisingly, we are not far from your wishes :mrgreen:
User avatar
evilkinggumby
Original backer
Original backer
Posts: 297
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:13 am

Haha I swear I'm not spying on you through a window! I think you mentioned you're in France so it'd take some skillz to do that when I'm in the U.S. :)

But yes that sounds like what I was suggesting, so it seems like you have a great notion for how to blow the genre wide open and make a really spectacular game!
Image
kanda
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:10 am

evilkinggumby wrote:Haha I swear I'm not spying on you through a window! I think you mentioned you're in France so it'd take some skillz to do that when I'm in the U.S. :)

But yes that sounds like what I was suggesting, so it seems like you have a great notion for how to blow the genre wide open and make a really spectacular game!
Yes, we have so many ideas, i think the game has huge potential. Now we can only hope we'll raise enough funds to add all the content of our dreams :)
User avatar
evilkinggumby
Original backer
Original backer
Posts: 297
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:13 am

Considering Legend of Grimrock II has been announced for a 10/15/14 release date and it takes place on an island with indoor and outdoor varying environments.. it looks like you'll need both a lot of luck and your "A" game to pull this off and gain attention. I just watched the trailer, and it looks like a huge leap in the same direction you're going.

Good luck guys. I mean it.
Image
kanda
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:10 am

evilkinggumby wrote:Considering Legend of Grimrock II has been announced for a 10/15/14 release date and it takes place on an island with indoor and outdoor varying environments.. it looks like you'll need both a lot of luck and your "A" game to pull this off and gain attention. I just watched the trailer, and it looks like a huge leap in the same direction you're going.

Good luck guys. I mean it.
Hello,
Thanks for your words. From a dungeon crawler player point of view, i would say LoG 2 is a good new :)
As a developper too, as we are forced to push the concept further, even we already wanted it, we are now forced too do :)

That's said, just like there are many fps around or many car games, people may buy both if they love the genre. Also, we may be ready sooner on mobile. But again, all our progress and release delays also depends the funding on indiegogo. If we get enough, we can be as good as LoG, visually speaking, our artists are good and we have plenty of nice ideas. If not, it may take more time and perhaps less content...We'll see :) Anyway we'll give our best to make a great game, even we don't reach the first crowdfunding goal.

regards :)
Alberto
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:08 pm

Hi everybody, I'm Alberto.
Lately I've been testing Dungeon Kingdom - lot of fun!
I originally became interested in Dungeon Kingdom because of GOAT - one of the first messages I wrote to Kanda was about how DK, together with GOAT, was making me change my mind about Unity. I've never been a great fan of third-party engines...
Being an (hobbyist, for now) engine programmer myself, I know how hard is switching to someone else's engine, for a developer of such pieces of software. It's what I call the Hartman disease - those who suffer from such an illness can be heard marching around, shouting:
"This is my engine. There are many like it, but this one is mine..." :P
One of the things that make me angry is the frequent yet-another-Grimrock-clone attitude that a lot of people show toward Dungeon Kingdom.
Now let me tell you something about clones: at the moment I'm working on a Quake clone, and I'm earning a lot of experience as far as cloning games goes.
Trust me: I know a clone when I see one... ;)
Dungeon Kingdom most definitely isn't yet another Grimrock clone!
User avatar
evilkinggumby
Original backer
Original backer
Posts: 297
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:13 am

Alberto wrote:Dungeon Kingdom most definitely isn't yet another Grimrock clone!
Kanda did a great job of detailing a lot of the innovations and differences, but it may be hard for the general public to believe and see that it is not a clone unless it is really apparent that it goes and defines itself well above and beyond it's predecessor. I think it has a great shot at doing this, mostly my goal/point earlier was to nudge Kanda into working towards both selling the team and their skillz on the fundraiser and also to bring more of a spotlight to the new features and changes the game has that are going to define it as it's own unique game.

Now if you have tested and are familiar with the game, this would be a great opportunity to engage in a private dialogue with Kanda and his peers as to what really stands out in your mind that makes this game shine and unique. Then he can better highlight that with future updates on the campaign!

I look forward to seeing what happens. :)

Also Welcome to the GoaT forums and I hope you take the time to peruse the many threads and chime in if you have ideas or interest in GoaT. We always love seeing new faces!
Image
Alberto
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:08 pm

Thanks for the warm welcome!

Yes, you're right: Kanda&co need to let the people see - and hear... - the human beings behind Dungeon Kingdom.

Sadly, I learned about GOAT crowdfunding - and GOAT itself! - much later, while digging through old news on Rock Paper Shotgun.
I have to say that since the demise of good old GameTunnel, I have had a hard time keeping up with indie news - these days the endless-stream-of-news seems to be the role model for pretty much every website devoted to indie gaming out there...
However, when I first saw it, GOAT really impressed me: simply put, I would have never considered such visuals possible in a Unity-powered game - and yes, I knew about Shadowgun.
It's clear, though, that the content fed to engine makes for a large part of what actually amazes the player - I'm not talking about graphics fidelity (only)...
It's consistence that truly makes the difference - if you don't mind the rhyme... :P
Unlike many indie wannabe, I don't think of AAA studios as enemies: I just think that when "too many" people work on a project, more often than not the final product feels a little... diluted.
User avatar
evilkinggumby
Original backer
Original backer
Posts: 297
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:13 am

I agree, the word Diluted is a good one.

Shadowgun? Never heard of that one.
Image
User avatar
david
'Ghost of a Tale' Community Manager
'Ghost of a Tale' Community Manager
Posts: 370
Joined: Mon May 20, 2013 4:07 am
Contact:

In my experience, EK is a staunch crowdfunding supporter and his comments were aimed at helping Kandu and Dungeon Crawler make the most of their IGG campaign. As you'll perfectly understand, he can only make an opinion based on what he sees... and (like most potential backers) he hasn't had the opportunity to play early versions of Dungeon Crawler to see/feel how different it is from Grimrock 1 and 2, and other (forgive the expression) dungeon crawlers.

For me personally, and probably for you all, I'm happy to see good games and crowdfunding projects succeed, whether they are indie or AAA :D

PS. welcome to the forum Alberto! 8-)
kanda
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:10 am

david wrote:In my experience, EK is a staunch crowdfunding supporter and his comments were aimed at helping Kandu and Dungeon Crawler make the most of their IGG campaign. As you'll perfectly understand, he can only make an opinion based on what he sees... and (like most potential backers) he hasn't had the opportunity to play early versions of Dungeon Crawler to see/feel how different it is from Grimrock 1 and 2, and other (forgive the expression) dungeon crawlers.
For me personally, and probably for you all, I'm happy to see good games and crowdfunding projects succeed, whether they are indie or AAA :D
PS. welcome to the forum Alberto! 8-)

Thanks. I know a demo would be great, we have one, but we can't spread it too widely, it's still Work i Progress, and people may think it's reflecting the final product. Which is not. Even to tell about it, sometimes testers won't care and if the first feeling is bad, it will be hard to correct that feeling, and thye may not even give it a second try. So currently, we only send the demo to a few peoples, which we know they will understand what a Work in progress means :)
User avatar
david
'Ghost of a Tale' Community Manager
'Ghost of a Tale' Community Manager
Posts: 370
Joined: Mon May 20, 2013 4:07 am
Contact:

@Kanda... yes we totally understand this ;)
User avatar
evilkinggumby
Original backer
Original backer
Posts: 297
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:13 am

Oh yes don't we ever. The demo for Ghost of a Tale hasn't been released to the general public yet, only those folk that got a chance to try it at Gamescon recently and a select few in the developers pool have seen it. So your fears and concerns sound very very familiar.

My point for Alfredo was encouraging him to talk to you guys about what he found to be some really great aspects to the game. I know you have a great concept for what makes the game shine, but getting a fresh pair of eyes to look at it and possibly point out additional strengths can be really handy. Maybe he noticed something really awesome about the Ui, or a gameplay aspect you hadn't thought about that ends up adding a lot of strategy? Anything is possible. :)

Worst case he will trell you all the stuff you already know, and then, hey, GREAT it means you are doing it right. But if he can also give you details on top of that, YAY! More to mention on indiegogo!
Image
User avatar
david
'Ghost of a Tale' Community Manager
'Ghost of a Tale' Community Manager
Posts: 370
Joined: Mon May 20, 2013 4:07 am
Contact:

.. yes, some fresh eyes (and skilled eyes) on any game (and campaign page, and everything else) can be really, really valuable. With a lot going on, its easy to miss out on useful things and have errors creep in. :D

For GoaT, Seith hasnt mentioned plans but I hope we do a LOT of playtesting... not to dilute the game and Seiths vision... but to identify any possible bugs and developer blind spots. Seith is smart, and with his background Id be surprised if there are any major issues, but even a punch list of minor stuff (though he'll probably be aware of most if it) would be helpful.

Seith took ages and ages (2 years of work) to show a demo, i think even with Jeremiah (composer) and me, partly because he wanted to be sure it was up to standard, and to reduce leakage risk. He'll be the first to know that the pre alpha demo isn't flawless, but imho it is very good.
kanda
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:10 am

I agree totally. When you are developing, sometime you avoid the traps unconsciously. When you test your demo. And not to mention your own habits as a player, you way to play which may be different from others ^^ A shot example is the view rotation. As a pc & first person view games player, i used to rotate view in some direction. But when a guy at Androgames tested the game on an Android device, and also when Alberto tested it, they felt it's unnatural to rotate in that direction and it should be inverted. This is ok for this example as i planned to add an option, but it's typically some feedbacks worth to get from a range of different testers. :idea:

It's about same to find bugs, as some players may not take the same way as you to reach a goal. Especially in a game like Dungeon Kingdom with its dynamic nature.
User avatar
david
'Ghost of a Tale' Community Manager
'Ghost of a Tale' Community Manager
Posts: 370
Joined: Mon May 20, 2013 4:07 am
Contact:

exactly, I was a bit surprised by the different ways people played even the short GOAT demo.

Cosmogenies (did some GOAT camera programming) here on the forum can play through it in a bit over two minutes on a speed run. Seith can do it in a bit over 3 minutes. My times at Gamescom were awful, easily north of ten minutes, but I preferred messing with the AI rats and knocking them out by throwing the stick to bonk them on the head anyway (that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it) :D
Alberto
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:08 pm

PS. welcome to the forum Alberto! 8-)
Thank you!

Well, the nice thing about DK demo is its replayability - I play it several times a day.
When I find a graphics glitch or some element that I think should be designed differently, I take a screenshot, I put some "red tape" where I think the "body of evidence" is, and finally I send it to Kanda...
User avatar
evilkinggumby
Original backer
Original backer
Posts: 297
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:13 am

david wrote: My times at Gamescom were awful, easily north of ten minutes, but I preferred messing with the AI rats and knocking them out by throwing the stick to bonk them on the head anyway (that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it) :D

LOL maybe you shouldn't branch out from your day job and stick to what you know best... lol

ahh puns.. such fun. (that was intentional, right David? )
Image
User avatar
david
'Ghost of a Tale' Community Manager
'Ghost of a Tale' Community Manager
Posts: 370
Joined: Mon May 20, 2013 4:07 am
Contact:

evilkinggumby wrote:ahh puns.. such fun. (that was intentional, right David? )
I'll never admit to deliberately bringing such a vile and invidious evil into the world :mrgreen:

Image
Alberto wrote:When I find a graphics glitch or some element that I think should be designed differently, I take a screenshot, I put some "red tape" where I think the "body of evidence" is, and finally I send it to Kanda...
Yep, makes sense, I've known Seith to occasionally use similar approach when we built this site.
Alberto
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:08 pm

Good Kanda and his pals have released the trailer!
kanda
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:10 am

Thanks alberto, i was about to post :)

Image
User avatar
david
'Ghost of a Tale' Community Manager
'Ghost of a Tale' Community Manager
Posts: 370
Joined: Mon May 20, 2013 4:07 am
Contact:

Cool, I'm going to look at the new video when I get home.

7 days to go on your IndieGoGo campaign, fingers crossed for you guys!
kanda
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:10 am

david wrote:Cool, I'm going to look at the new video when I get home.

7 days to go on your IndieGoGo campaign, fingers crossed for you guys!
Thanks a lot :)
Let's see if we get more exposure in the press with this trailer, for the last part of the campaign....^^
User avatar
david
'Ghost of a Tale' Community Manager
'Ghost of a Tale' Community Manager
Posts: 370
Joined: Mon May 20, 2013 4:07 am
Contact:

I checked out your trailer, looks and sounds nice...

I'm liking the details including your editing/pacing, the music and even your font... also your snowy environment with the big ogre :D
kanda
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:10 am

david wrote:I checked out your trailer, looks and sounds nice...

I'm liking the details including your editing/pacing, the music and even your font... also your snowy environment with the big ogre :D
Thanks David, nice comments is always good to read :)
Post Reply