Dungeon Kingdom & Thanks

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kanda
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evilkinggumby wrote:Considering Legend of Grimrock II has been announced for a 10/15/14 release date and it takes place on an island with indoor and outdoor varying environments.. it looks like you'll need both a lot of luck and your "A" game to pull this off and gain attention. I just watched the trailer, and it looks like a huge leap in the same direction you're going.

Good luck guys. I mean it.
Hello,
Thanks for your words. From a dungeon crawler player point of view, i would say LoG 2 is a good new :)
As a developper too, as we are forced to push the concept further, even we already wanted it, we are now forced too do :)

That's said, just like there are many fps around or many car games, people may buy both if they love the genre. Also, we may be ready sooner on mobile. But again, all our progress and release delays also depends the funding on indiegogo. If we get enough, we can be as good as LoG, visually speaking, our artists are good and we have plenty of nice ideas. If not, it may take more time and perhaps less content...We'll see :) Anyway we'll give our best to make a great game, even we don't reach the first crowdfunding goal.

regards :)
Alberto
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Hi everybody, I'm Alberto.
Lately I've been testing Dungeon Kingdom - lot of fun!
I originally became interested in Dungeon Kingdom because of GOAT - one of the first messages I wrote to Kanda was about how DK, together with GOAT, was making me change my mind about Unity. I've never been a great fan of third-party engines...
Being an (hobbyist, for now) engine programmer myself, I know how hard is switching to someone else's engine, for a developer of such pieces of software. It's what I call the Hartman disease - those who suffer from such an illness can be heard marching around, shouting:
"This is my engine. There are many like it, but this one is mine..." :P
One of the things that make me angry is the frequent yet-another-Grimrock-clone attitude that a lot of people show toward Dungeon Kingdom.
Now let me tell you something about clones: at the moment I'm working on a Quake clone, and I'm earning a lot of experience as far as cloning games goes.
Trust me: I know a clone when I see one... ;)
Dungeon Kingdom most definitely isn't yet another Grimrock clone!
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evilkinggumby
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Alberto wrote:Dungeon Kingdom most definitely isn't yet another Grimrock clone!
Kanda did a great job of detailing a lot of the innovations and differences, but it may be hard for the general public to believe and see that it is not a clone unless it is really apparent that it goes and defines itself well above and beyond it's predecessor. I think it has a great shot at doing this, mostly my goal/point earlier was to nudge Kanda into working towards both selling the team and their skillz on the fundraiser and also to bring more of a spotlight to the new features and changes the game has that are going to define it as it's own unique game.

Now if you have tested and are familiar with the game, this would be a great opportunity to engage in a private dialogue with Kanda and his peers as to what really stands out in your mind that makes this game shine and unique. Then he can better highlight that with future updates on the campaign!

I look forward to seeing what happens. :)

Also Welcome to the GoaT forums and I hope you take the time to peruse the many threads and chime in if you have ideas or interest in GoaT. We always love seeing new faces!
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Alberto
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Thanks for the warm welcome!

Yes, you're right: Kanda&co need to let the people see - and hear... - the human beings behind Dungeon Kingdom.

Sadly, I learned about GOAT crowdfunding - and GOAT itself! - much later, while digging through old news on Rock Paper Shotgun.
I have to say that since the demise of good old GameTunnel, I have had a hard time keeping up with indie news - these days the endless-stream-of-news seems to be the role model for pretty much every website devoted to indie gaming out there...
However, when I first saw it, GOAT really impressed me: simply put, I would have never considered such visuals possible in a Unity-powered game - and yes, I knew about Shadowgun.
It's clear, though, that the content fed to engine makes for a large part of what actually amazes the player - I'm not talking about graphics fidelity (only)...
It's consistence that truly makes the difference - if you don't mind the rhyme... :P
Unlike many indie wannabe, I don't think of AAA studios as enemies: I just think that when "too many" people work on a project, more often than not the final product feels a little... diluted.
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evilkinggumby
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I agree, the word Diluted is a good one.

Shadowgun? Never heard of that one.
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david
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In my experience, EK is a staunch crowdfunding supporter and his comments were aimed at helping Kandu and Dungeon Crawler make the most of their IGG campaign. As you'll perfectly understand, he can only make an opinion based on what he sees... and (like most potential backers) he hasn't had the opportunity to play early versions of Dungeon Crawler to see/feel how different it is from Grimrock 1 and 2, and other (forgive the expression) dungeon crawlers.

For me personally, and probably for you all, I'm happy to see good games and crowdfunding projects succeed, whether they are indie or AAA :D

PS. welcome to the forum Alberto! 8-)
kanda
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david wrote:In my experience, EK is a staunch crowdfunding supporter and his comments were aimed at helping Kandu and Dungeon Crawler make the most of their IGG campaign. As you'll perfectly understand, he can only make an opinion based on what he sees... and (like most potential backers) he hasn't had the opportunity to play early versions of Dungeon Crawler to see/feel how different it is from Grimrock 1 and 2, and other (forgive the expression) dungeon crawlers.
For me personally, and probably for you all, I'm happy to see good games and crowdfunding projects succeed, whether they are indie or AAA :D
PS. welcome to the forum Alberto! 8-)

Thanks. I know a demo would be great, we have one, but we can't spread it too widely, it's still Work i Progress, and people may think it's reflecting the final product. Which is not. Even to tell about it, sometimes testers won't care and if the first feeling is bad, it will be hard to correct that feeling, and thye may not even give it a second try. So currently, we only send the demo to a few peoples, which we know they will understand what a Work in progress means :)
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david
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@Kanda... yes we totally understand this ;)
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evilkinggumby
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Oh yes don't we ever. The demo for Ghost of a Tale hasn't been released to the general public yet, only those folk that got a chance to try it at Gamescon recently and a select few in the developers pool have seen it. So your fears and concerns sound very very familiar.

My point for Alfredo was encouraging him to talk to you guys about what he found to be some really great aspects to the game. I know you have a great concept for what makes the game shine, but getting a fresh pair of eyes to look at it and possibly point out additional strengths can be really handy. Maybe he noticed something really awesome about the Ui, or a gameplay aspect you hadn't thought about that ends up adding a lot of strategy? Anything is possible. :)

Worst case he will trell you all the stuff you already know, and then, hey, GREAT it means you are doing it right. But if he can also give you details on top of that, YAY! More to mention on indiegogo!
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david
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.. yes, some fresh eyes (and skilled eyes) on any game (and campaign page, and everything else) can be really, really valuable. With a lot going on, its easy to miss out on useful things and have errors creep in. :D

For GoaT, Seith hasnt mentioned plans but I hope we do a LOT of playtesting... not to dilute the game and Seiths vision... but to identify any possible bugs and developer blind spots. Seith is smart, and with his background Id be surprised if there are any major issues, but even a punch list of minor stuff (though he'll probably be aware of most if it) would be helpful.

Seith took ages and ages (2 years of work) to show a demo, i think even with Jeremiah (composer) and me, partly because he wanted to be sure it was up to standard, and to reduce leakage risk. He'll be the first to know that the pre alpha demo isn't flawless, but imho it is very good.
kanda
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I agree totally. When you are developing, sometime you avoid the traps unconsciously. When you test your demo. And not to mention your own habits as a player, you way to play which may be different from others ^^ A shot example is the view rotation. As a pc & first person view games player, i used to rotate view in some direction. But when a guy at Androgames tested the game on an Android device, and also when Alberto tested it, they felt it's unnatural to rotate in that direction and it should be inverted. This is ok for this example as i planned to add an option, but it's typically some feedbacks worth to get from a range of different testers. :idea:

It's about same to find bugs, as some players may not take the same way as you to reach a goal. Especially in a game like Dungeon Kingdom with its dynamic nature.
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david
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exactly, I was a bit surprised by the different ways people played even the short GOAT demo.

Cosmogenies (did some GOAT camera programming) here on the forum can play through it in a bit over two minutes on a speed run. Seith can do it in a bit over 3 minutes. My times at Gamescom were awful, easily north of ten minutes, but I preferred messing with the AI rats and knocking them out by throwing the stick to bonk them on the head anyway (that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it) :D
Alberto
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PS. welcome to the forum Alberto! 8-)
Thank you!

Well, the nice thing about DK demo is its replayability - I play it several times a day.
When I find a graphics glitch or some element that I think should be designed differently, I take a screenshot, I put some "red tape" where I think the "body of evidence" is, and finally I send it to Kanda...
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evilkinggumby
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david wrote: My times at Gamescom were awful, easily north of ten minutes, but I preferred messing with the AI rats and knocking them out by throwing the stick to bonk them on the head anyway (that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it) :D

LOL maybe you shouldn't branch out from your day job and stick to what you know best... lol

ahh puns.. such fun. (that was intentional, right David? )
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david
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evilkinggumby wrote:ahh puns.. such fun. (that was intentional, right David? )
I'll never admit to deliberately bringing such a vile and invidious evil into the world :mrgreen:

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Alberto wrote:When I find a graphics glitch or some element that I think should be designed differently, I take a screenshot, I put some "red tape" where I think the "body of evidence" is, and finally I send it to Kanda...
Yep, makes sense, I've known Seith to occasionally use similar approach when we built this site.
Alberto
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Good Kanda and his pals have released the trailer!
kanda
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Thanks alberto, i was about to post :)

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david
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Cool, I'm going to look at the new video when I get home.

7 days to go on your IndieGoGo campaign, fingers crossed for you guys!
kanda
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david wrote:Cool, I'm going to look at the new video when I get home.

7 days to go on your IndieGoGo campaign, fingers crossed for you guys!
Thanks a lot :)
Let's see if we get more exposure in the press with this trailer, for the last part of the campaign....^^
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david
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I checked out your trailer, looks and sounds nice...

I'm liking the details including your editing/pacing, the music and even your font... also your snowy environment with the big ogre :D
kanda
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david wrote:I checked out your trailer, looks and sounds nice...

I'm liking the details including your editing/pacing, the music and even your font... also your snowy environment with the big ogre :D
Thanks David, nice comments is always good to read :)
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