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Possible Console Version?

Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:50 am
by Scrustle
I was wondering whether there would be a possibility of a console version of the game being made. Although I've already backed the game so I'll be getting the PC version, I've always been more of a console kind of person. There's also the fact that I don't own a powerful PC, and I've even had trouble in the past trying to run games that I apparently meet the recommended specs for. I'm not confident that I'll be able to play the game once it comes out, and even if I could I would probably have a better time playing on a console regardless. So I wanted to know whether that could actually happen. Consoles were mentioned in the latest blog post about creating textures; could that be a small hint at something?

Re: Possible Console Version?

Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:02 am
by Seith
Hi Scrustle! Well it's a bit early to promise anything in that regard of course, but it seems indeed very likely that the game will also see a release on consoles at some point...

Re: Possible Console Version?

Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:43 am
by Scrustle
Thanks for the reply. I'm glad to hear you're exploring the possibility.

Re: Possible Console Version?

Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:38 pm
by Gab_dC
Sony are really pushing for Indie titles and better third party relations for their platforms. Fans have been asked to tweet a Sony rep (@giocorsi]) about any games they'd like to see on a Sony platform. I've done my part by recommending GoaT.

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2013/08/ ... tion-team/

I'd love to see an eventual console release.

Re: Possible Console Version?

Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:11 pm
by david
^ @GabDC... excellent idea, I tweeted (@giocorsi]) just now. Everyone, please do this too! :D

Seith and I have talked quite a bit about consoles.

Unity, the game engine that GoaT is being developed on, is capable of publishing to most PC and home consoles (Windows, Linux, Mac, XBox, Playstation, Nintendo). Unity can even publish for mini console, handheld and mobile release (Android, iOS, Windows Phone, Blackberry).

Of course, there is tweaking, optimization and testing involved for each release, so not all platforms have been successful enough yet (in terms of installed units) to make the whole process worthwhile.

Also, as you know by now, as well as decent gameplay, one of Seith's main goals is to have GoaT reach a high visual standard. Some platforms just aren't powerful enough because Seith isn't willing to compromise much on the visuals, but imho if:

- there is strong demand for GoaT on a platform
- the platform is powerful enough to run a very playable and good-looking version of GoaT
- the platform doesn't need an insane amount of time or resources to modify, tweak and test GoaT for

Seith might well go for it :D

Re: Possible Console Version?

Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:59 am
by Gab_dC
Great points, David!

With the PS4 and Xbone utilising more traditional PC hardware, I'm sure getting the code up and running with Unity will be a (relative) breeze.

Re: Possible Console Version?

Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:03 am
by Pulsar
I too would love to see GoaT on consoles. The PS4 may well be my next-gen platform as I'm not sure what (if any) type of new computer I will be able to afford.

I guess console ports should be ok to deal with for people who actually know about these things but when I read this article it sounded rather difficult! http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digit ... ystation-4

Re: Possible Console Version?

Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:07 am
by david
That's a really interesting (and unusually detailed) article. As far as I can tell, the newly-assembled Ivory Tower team (including people who worked on Need for Speed, V-Rally, and the Test Drive series) didn't just build a game, they built a custom game engine to create The Crew for the PC. This engine was probably specifically designed and optimized for car racing games.

Then, like they describe in the article, the second Ubisoft Refections team ported the entire custom game engine over for the PS4 version of The Crew. Having two engines (one for PC and one for PS) would allow them to build other games, in addition to The Crew, and share the groundwork between (similar) engines and titles.

@Pulsar you are right, porting a AAA game or game engine for a new console like the PS4 must have been quite a challenge! :D For a PC, the process of building a game engine is a lot better documented and understood, but still a heck of an undertaking.

Re: Possible Console Version?

Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:40 pm
by Pulsar
@david I see, so most of that sort of work mentioned in the article will already have been done for games using the Unity engine?

Re: Possible Console Version?

Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:35 pm
by david
Pulsar wrote:so most of that sort of work mentioned in the article will already have been done for games using the Unity engine?
Exactly, a lot of the nuts and bolts things they talk about like memory management, rendering and threading can be setup at a more fundamental game engine level. The article is talking about porting The Crew game but, though it isn't explicitly noted, I'm fairly sure the interviewed programmer is talking about porting the engine underneath the game... he mentions 'engine' a couple of times. As you say, Unity already does this kind of heavy lifting in terms of translating for each platform.

Most game engines like Unity, CryEngine, Unreal Engine, Fox Engine and Frostbite (and this unnamed engine) do roughly similar things for their target platforms. They usually have systems that include realtime rendering, lighting, shaders, physics, skeletal animation, cinematics, events monitoring.

So, as a game developer, you don't necessarily need to build absolutely everything from scratch, or translate everything for each platform from scratch... though there is still plenty of work remaining to do! :mrgreen:

PS. By the way, here is a thread started by Diego in support of bringing GoaT to Ouya: http://ouyaforum.com/showthread.php?649 ... -of-a-tale

Re: Possible Console Version?

Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:25 am
by evilkinggumby
Sorry to resurrect this old thread but I was curious now that they're starting to list prototypes, would Seith ever consider seeing how well he could translate the game to the upcoming Steam Box?

I wouldn't expect the gamne to hit other platforms until it proves a total success upon release, in part because in addition to the time and work it takes to port a game to another platform, it also costs money to get the licensing rights, and in some cases the console may not let you release it without a dedicated publisher. I think the xbox 360 is like that, but they will accept games on XBLA, though there is a strict limit on game size in that area, which could be an issue.

If a large game publisher came up to Seith and offered to work with him to put the game out do you think he would do it? I don't just mean publish it to a console, I mean midway through development they contact him and offer to buy the publishing rights for $x,000,000 and offer him a team of designers and developers to assist... do you think he's bite?

Re: Possible Console Version?

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:41 am
by Seith
Yes, Steamboxes are interesting to me (for GOAT) because they seem like beefed-up PCs. So although I still don't know much about the OS and relevant intricacies of the system, color me curious about it all.

Now to your second point: you know that as you climb up the professional ladder you get to actually do less and less. You direct, guide, lead teams of people and that's perfectly fine with me; I feel comfortable doing it and I enjoy it.

But at this point in time I feel like I have to do things myself, if only to blaze a trail that I'll then be able to point to and say "like that!". In life I have respect for people who know what they're talking about and GOAT is my very first game. This learning process is necessary for me to eventually feel confident leading a developer studio.

As to publishers' offers I cannot share any detail about that but I was lucky enough to be contacted by several ones (both small and very large). However what they're often interested in is also buying the franchise itself, to own the intellectual property of GOAT. And that does not sit well with me.

Again I develop GOAT because I enjoy the challenge and freedom of it. Finding myself in a situation where I would have to answer to a big publisher is currently not a goal of mine. I've spent most of my career working for big studios and I feel like it is time for me to own what I create.

I hope that answers your questions. I'm not closing the door on the kind of things you describe; it all depends on the fairness of the deal...

Re: Possible Console Version?

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:21 am
by Pulsar
Oooo..... It's very cool that publishers actually contacted you (at least I think so :D ).

Of course all your decisions sound correct to me, who would want to lose control of their own project and IP both creatively (probably) and financially?!

If (/when?) GoaT is successful it sounds like the possibilities for sequels etc. will be endless :D

Re: Possible Console Version?

Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:37 pm
by david
Pulsar wrote:If (/when?) GoaT is successful it sounds like the possibilities for sequels etc. will be endless :D
@Pulsar... I believe from what Seith has said in interviews, and from chatting with him, that he has conceived an entire alternate world, full of terrific characters, history, and everything else. As you say, and as I understand things, Seith's vision is that GOAT will just the first in a series of games set in a wonderful alternate universe.

;) So, fingers crossed that GOAT will be a winner!

Re: Possible Console Version?

Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:18 pm
by KwisatzHaderach
@Evilkinggumby
Translating the game to steambox would mean porting it for linux wouldn't it? As far as I know, SteamOS is linux-based. I'd be delighted to see GOAT making it onto linux. However, if there is something I don't begin to understand, it is the SteamBox. Valve said they want to satisfy their costumer's yearning to move their games into the living room. But why would I need an overpriced SteamBox for that if I could just as well build/buy a mini-ATX PC and plug in the TV and Steamcontroller? I just don't get it.

@Seith
That seems like a healthy attitude. I have to think of all the great bands that have sprung up over the last couple of decades and how their music changed when they were contracted by big companies. How it lost most of the vibe and character and how you could hear the suits behind it, talking about target groups and radioicity of the newest album. Not saying you are doomed when you make some serious money with your craft, but there seems to come an awefull lot of pressure and compromise with the big moneyz. So, kudos to you, for following your heart and for giving us the prospect to play something unique and personal.

Re: Possible Console Version?

Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:01 pm
by evilkinggumby
KwisatzHaderach wrote:@Evilkinggumby
Translating the game to steambox would mean porting it for linux wouldn't it? As far as I know, SteamOS is linux-based. I'd be delighted to see GOAT making it onto linux. However, if there is something I don't begin to understand, it is the SteamBox. Valve said they want to satisfy their costumer's yearning to move their games into the living room. But why would I need an overpriced SteamBox for that if I could just as well build/buy a mini-ATX PC and plug in the TV and Steamcontroller? I just don't get it.
I am going to assume (a BIG assumption, I know) that development tools will become available (if they do not already exist) that will make porting games to their SteamOS fairly intuitive and as easy a transition as possible. It may be a matter of Valve facilitating the Steam Approved hardware has proper working drivers for their OS and all the OS does is link things together to work. Not sure. But If you consider that each console has it's own hardware and (however small or large) OS the steam box is not so different in execution from a 360 or ps3.

Now considering your other argument about 'why not make a HTPC with windows and just use a Steam controller" I don't really have a counter aside from.. not everyone knows how to do that? Really the Steambox is another option to do pc gaming on a simple easy to maintain rig that has as good (if not better) graphics than most next gen consoles, along with a suite of additional software for added value (music/movie streaming and web browsing).

It'll be like a beefier OUYA, except Valve has the ability to also offer incentives to their current publisher corral so they'll consider releasing to the Steambox.

"Hey, if you are porting the game to Steam distribution, once the software is on our servers we can help facilitate transferring it to STEAMbox's os and we'll offer you x% of the paid price during the first 12 months of sales. "

Like that, I am guessing. I mean if it's cheap and profitable to sell their software on ANOTHER console, and grow their profits without much investment.. WTF not? :)

But really I'm speculating six ways from Tuesday. I don't plan to get a steambox. I build pc's so I know how to make my own and don't need one more in my livingroom (my current game pc is in the downstairs living room behind my tv). I plan to play GOAT HUGE and loving it. :)

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Re: Possible Console Version?

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:26 am
by KwisatzHaderach
Lol, I hope that is an Ultra HD screen there. The only way to play GOAT in its full glory.

The whole point is: you don't port to SteamBox. You port to SteamOS. But you can install SteamOS on any system. That's how I understand it and that is the huge difference between the SteamBox and consoles.

Re: Possible Console Version?

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:08 am
by david
Huge GOAT does look compelling, I'm kind of drooling at the prospect. These past three months, I've been actively looking to buy a projector for work and gaming. I had one before, and it was awesome having a half-wall of PC visuals :D Eventually the projector bulb died though, and I've been hunched over a laptop screen :shock:
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Yes, it a bit confusing but SteamOS (based on Linux though optimized for certain things like gaming) is downloadable for any system, not just a SteamBox. Basically SteamOS can run on your machine independently of Windows, and I assume it is possible to dual boot it alongside Windows. As well as being big screen optimized, SteamOS also might offer a performance benefit, because it does relatively fewer tasks than a full OS.

As you probably know, Unity (the GOAT game engine) certainly can build a port for Linux. I guess in the fullness of time...when GOAT is farther down the track... it remains to see how much additional modification would be needed to make a GOAT Linux port play and look right. I know Seith would like to get GOAT on a whole bunch of platforms, but only if he can keep the visual quality high... he 100 percent insists on this.

Re: Possible Console Version?

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:13 am
by evilkinggumby
KwisatzHaderach wrote:Lol, I hope that is an Ultra HD screen there. The only way to play GOAT in its full glory.
LOL actually if you pixel counted it's not even a SD tv lol.. but my tv here is not ultra HD either. It's just a regular 1080p LED tv. I can't afford a 4K tv anytime soon, and I don't think my graphics card in my pc could pull 4K resolutions unless they were running at some seriously pathetic framerates and VERY low textures.. lol

But yes porting would be to STEAMOS and it's good you could do a dual boot. I don't expect to ever utilize that unless it proves to be pretty widespread (in terms of game son it) and significantly better for game performance. Otherwise, I'm ok with what I got now with steam. We'll see.

I'm sorry to hear you're locked into just a laptop screen David, thats.. a bummer. Even larger laptops have pretty small screens when compared to a typical monitor nowadays. And for old folk like me, staring at a laptop screen is murder on the eyes. Though that's also why I don't game much on portables or my phone. :)

I used to play and watch movies on a LCD projector, a sony model that was 800x600 native. It was in the days before HD was mainstream, so it didn't even support 'progressive scan' mode. I was able to hook it to my old xbox through a VGA cable and get about 480i though, which was kool. It wasn't perfect, but it worked. :) Even at lower rez playing games on a 72" screen was a trip.

Sadly eventually the bulbs got low and were on the verge of blowing. I had 2 (got 1 free through a rebate with the purchase of the projector) and each was about 3/4 spent so the contrast and brightness were a lot lower. In time I stopped using it when I got a 50" plasma tv (only 720p though) and sold it through craig's list locally to a single mom who was struggling. SHe was watching movies with her daughter on her laptop and that was it. So it meant hooking up the projector (and screen) and seeing those same movies MUCH BIGGER and she was totally psyched about it. For the price, it was a great compromise and I'm glad the projector went to a good home. hehehe.

Bulbs can be pricey. The replacement ones for mine stayed at $300+ for the life I had it, and only just started seeing offbrand bulbs for about $75. Thats the worst part. The bulb life I had was about 2k-3k each. Just not enough.

They're starting to do a lot with LED's and projector bulbs. I bet you could get a cheap small 720p LED projector to take with you and game on and it'd be pretty solid. :) That is.. if Seith and Jeremiah share in their vast wealth..hehehe

Re: Possible Console Version?

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:54 pm
by KwisatzHaderach
Before anyone here considers buying a projector: have you ever thought about getting one kf these super cheap korean 2560x1440 PLS monitors? Because I did. They are AMAZING!!! The colours, the space, even the response times are really good for a non-TN panel. They use the same Samsung panels that Apple uses for just a quarter of the price. AND they are overclockable to 120hz in some cases (mine runs on 96hz). I'll provide a link when I get home.

Re: Possible Console Version?

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:04 am
by david
@EvilKing... a 720p LED project is pretty much what I've been looking for... infinite bulb life and portable... yay! I must check on Amazon and eBay again.

@Kwisatz... those monitors sound terrific at the right price (so, if necessary, I can leave them behind if I move) and if I can get 'em in Thailand. Electronic stuff here is 30% to 100% more than the US... which is weird because they actually make some items here. I believe that there is an oligopoly of distributors here at the top of the supply chain, and those fat cats skim off the cream.

Re: Possible Console Version?

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:09 am
by evilkinggumby
LOL well even with LED there is no "infinite bulb life". It's just a lot longer running. In looking it seems like you could get a decent 720p(1080i) led projector that does about 500 lumens for around $500 on amazon, that's in american $$ though and I don't know what kind of availability that'd have in Thailand.

the markup there sounds terrible. I mean I figured everything was super pricey in the US due to import tariffs and stuff. I guess it's just expensive all around the world.

Though I guess we should get back on topic. With Seith's desire to have the best visuals, does this mean it's a likely safe bet the game won't port to handhelds? I mean you can get some solid visuals on a vita, but I don't know if it'd pull off all the dx11 effects too well. Also seeing it on a tiny screen may spoil it. It'd be neat to see it on 3ds, especially if it manages to use the 3d effect, but I KNOW it'd need a lot of downgrading (visually) to run properly on that hardware due to the lower rez screen and dual screen layout.

Re: Possible Console Version?

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:43 am
by david
evilkinggumby wrote:LOL well even with LED there is no "infinite bulb life". It's just a lot longer running.

Darn you, ok... not infinite.. only 50,000 hours :ugeek:
evilkinggumby wrote:the markup there sounds terrible. I mean I figured everything was super pricey in the US due to import tariffs and stuff. I guess it's just expensive all around the world.
Actually, it blows my mind, but electronics prices in the US are about the best in the world... even better than China for famous-branded products (and that's where a lot of the stuff is made). I think it is partly because of the high demand, scale economies and a lot of retail competition (bricks & mortar and online) in the US.
evilkinggumby wrote:With Seith's desire to have the best visuals, does this mean it's a likely safe bet the game won't port to handhelds?
I took a look at the specifications of the handhelds, and even high end tablets, and sent Seith a breakdown about 6 months ago. He is interested in doing something, but I get the impression he's not 100% convinced that the visuals would work for GOAT. As you'd expect, the PC version is consuming his attention right now anyway.

Basically, getting GOAT to look suitably awesome on these machines MAY be achievable... it would be especially cool on a 3ds with a bit of depth.

Re: Possible Console Version?

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:53 am
by evilkinggumby
Yeah. I suspect if I want to check the game in good 3d though I'll either have to get a proper stereoscopic setup at home (i don't have a 3d tv at all) or pray eventually for the oculous rift support. :) but that's certainly 'down the road'.

Re: Possible Console Version?

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:30 am
by david
Korean monitors - Just to say that Kwisatz got back to me by PM about the Korean monitors. Kwisatz knows quite a lot about hardware, so if you are in the market for a low-cost high-res monitor, this is his inside scoop. I put his detailed info in a separate thread to keep this thread on topic... though its a bit late for that :lol:

http://www.ghostofatale.com/forum/viewt ... p=786#p786