Playing GOAT at high resolution - Korean monitors?

david · Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:00 am

Hey folks, I know this post is unusual but this isn't spam, I just wanted to share with you a PM that Kwisatz sent me. He works with PC hardware, so Kwisatz has a lot of insight into quality and price. The monitors he describes just might be the right option if you are on a budget, but hoping to play GOAT at high resolution.

Hi david!

Yes, sorry, I wanted to get back to you, but I have been a bit snowed under with work lately. So, these monitors really are a bargain. I hope they are shipped to Thailand though. I got one of these: http://m.ebay.com/itm/330932578190?nav=SEARCH&sbk=1

There is another brand called QNIX, but the monitors they sell are identical. Dream-seller, green-sum and accessoirieswhole are trustworthy sellers that I have read mostly good things about during my time of research. They were also the cheapest and they shipped to Germany for free at incredible speed. i got lucky and didn't even have to pay customs

My screen has one stuck pixel, but that is no deal since the pixel density is insanely high. I did have some issues with bad back light bleeding, so I opened up the screen and fixd it with some additional tape around the panel to stop the light shining through. There are not many cases of bothersome blb though, I was unlucky in that regard.

Check this site out, it has all the info there is about these monitors: http://www.overclock.net/t/1384767/offi ... nix-x-star
Really, you should think this through. Once you got that space, contrast and colour, you will never want to to back to a "regular" monitor

If you've got any questions, feel free to ask! See you on the forums
Kwis

KwisatzHaderach · Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:14 am

I'm flattered

, a post just for my response.

Just one thing I have to get straight: while I do like tinkering with my hardware and have build a few rigs for friends, I am NOT earning a living in the hardware business. It is just a hobby that turns into an obsession every year or so until I have upgraded something.

Concerning the monitors: I'm sure there are some people who will disagree with them being the best display solution out there atm. There are projectors as mentioned by evilkinggumpy, there are multi-monitor arrays, there are Ultra HD monitors (several sub 1000$ models have been announced) and then there is Occulus Rift.

I still think that korean monitors with resolutions around 2560*1440 are hitting a sweet spot. They are the most versatile choice. They provide heaps of space for working while most modern graphics cards are still beefy enough to run most games on highest settings at native res. Seeing how my HD 7970 struggles with some games at 1440p I don't want to think about how 2160p would work out. And I can hardly see any pixels on 1440p anyway.

Then there are the colours. Switching from a 8 year old TN panel to my present PLS panel, I was most surprised by the vividness of the colours. Playing Dishonored and Mirror's Edge with that monitor completely took my breath away. These games have incredible art design anyway, but the colours really made it shine even more!

Then there is the really good response times. Usually TN panels have mediocre image quality but they score with low response times compared to IPS/PLS panels. The cheap korean monitors do not have an HDMI interface, they only work on DVI, which makes them very responsive (at the cost of being incompatible with consoles).

AAAAAND, you can overclock most of these things. Some up to 120 Hz, most up to 96 Hz. That gives you a 27" 2560*1400 PLS 120Hz monitor for around 300$!!! (On sale right now). Ok, where can I get my commision?

For you, David, the trouble may be finding a vendor that ships to Thailand...

david · Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:03 pm

KwisatzHaderach wrote:I am NOT earning a living in the hardware business

Sorry Kwisatz, I thought you were in the hardware trade. That's my bad

I'm really tempted by this hardware: imho you make a lot of really valid points. The thing is, I've got long trips from my temporary home in Thailand on to Japan and the Philippines in a couple of months, so I'm leaning toward something more portable.

evilkinggumby · Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:30 am

People play on 27" monitors still? lol.. (just kidding).

I personally am using a number of setups for computing and gaming. Originally I was gaming on my tower on what is now my work monitor, a cheap (refurb) 1080p LCD television using the VGA in. It is only 60hz so getting really high refreshs' wasn't possible, but at the time I was also using a AMD 5770 so most games couldn't get a good framerate at higher rez anyhow.

Currently my tower is hooked to my tv in the downstairs livingroom, which is a 60" 1080p smart LED tv, and that one can do up to 120hz and has a nice series of smart filters to fill in frame gaps. It means watching movies and playing games allows for much better clarity and less motion blur. THIS i love, though it means when watching older films, you see how cheap/fake/cheesy they were at times.. lol. If anyone saw the HFR version of the newer Hobbit movies, that's sort of the effect you get. I also bumped up my graphics card to a GTX 560 Ti so it can do 1080p gaming on most stuff (wuth some tweaks for the newest games).

For what David is looking to do.. I'd actually shoot for this or similar:

LG Electronics PA75U Slim LED Projector with WXGA Resolution WiDi and Smart TV

Here is a link to it on our amazon.com (obviously you can't order it here, but lots of info to be seen)

http://www.amazon.com/LG-Electronics-PA ... im_sbs_e_1

Why would I recommend this? Well for the pricetag of $640 (which may greatly vary where you are) you get a slightly better than 720p projector (with 3d capability) that is moderately bright (700 lumens) and also an LED (so 20-30,000 hours of use) and has a built in digital tuner and multiple "smart" functions so you can use it for a general television wherever you are, computer for presentations (built in WiDi so you can stream and access stuff wirelessly from a nearby pc/laptop) and is fairly quiet and fast to turn on. It'd give you a monitor/tv/presentation outlet plus highly portable and long lasting.

Oh yeah and it has a few video streaming apps built in for netflix/youtube/etc.

It's not going to be as slick, HD or flawless as what Kwisatz is suggesting, but it might be a solid compromise if you can get it locally.

The other thing I'd say to get if possible is this:

Epson ES1000 Ultra Portable Tabletop Projection Screen (V12H002S4Y)

http://www.amazon.com/Epson-Portable-Ta ... ion+screen

I suggested this at one of my old workplaces and they got it. It gives you a portable 50" screen to project on. Means a great easy way to set up a screen at most locations (assuming it has some kind of table surface) for presentations, but also very good for gaming or watching tv. It weighs only a few pounds, folds up pretty small (easily could fit in a suitcase or carry-on) and sets up in seconds. They loved it and still use it to this day.

You'd also want a solid pair of headphones or some speakers to hook the projector to as it has audio built in but projector audio is never that great.

david · Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:17 am

Thanks folks, you know I appreciate your insight. Because I need something a bit mobile and my budget is around USD 350, I've been looking at something like this:

VVME V61 (LED-86) LED HDMI Projector 1080p HD Ready (Native WXGA 1280 x 768) For Home Cinema, Movie, Video Games, brightness 2800 lumens -http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AMV ... ORJFCDCGVQ

I'm not sure about refresh rate (probably 60hz) and 3D, though those are less of a priority for me for the next six to eight months. Though this projector is big and a bit heavy at 8 pounds, it should do the job hopefully.

Feel free to let me know your thoughts of course: I haven't committed to anything yet

evilkinggumby · Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:13 am

Ya know.. it sounds almost too good to be true, which makes my spidey sense tingle. Where did you see it documented it was 2,800 lumens? Normally for a LED projector it is very hard to find one that'll do close to 2,000 lumens, and those cost a fortune. What you have listed is actually brighter than most regular bulb projectors, so I tend to question if it is true.

The features sound great but it is a relatively new model and on amazon there is like.. 2 brief reviews from last November?

I did some looking and what makes me leery about it is that there is no sites I can find that show the specs in full detail for this model. Everyone has almost the same blurb details as that amazon page. As well it has not been detailed or listed on http://www.projectorcentral.com, which is the best resource and web place to research and check on projector details. It's been around for over a decade and has tons of great info. If they don't have it, I worry.

My gut says it is a gimmick, a 'made in china' knockoff made to look legit but likely with questionable quality and parts and if you get a bum deal you'll be s.o.l. cause every page I found, NO ONE knows who the MFG is.. Seriously.. try and see a Manufacturer name.

For the pricepoint you are considering you'll likely want to look up PICO projectors or 'portable projectors' and see what you can find. I did see a nice deal at newegg for an Acer one but I don't know if they'd deliver to you or if there is a similar deal where you are.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... _-24009546

there is also a Dell brand one that looks decent and has a couple nice reviews:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 24-260-158

And they both come with carrycases.

lol.

KwisatzHaderach · Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:34 pm

Alright, I may have lost this battle, but PLS monitors will be back one day and you know it... AND YOU KNOW IT!!!

I resign and leave the field to evilkinggumby (on a totally unrelated note: think about that name!) as I don't have a clue about projectors. You made up your mind and I respect that. Goat will also look stunning on WXGA, I'm sure. It doesn't have to be WQHD all the time. And who needs vivid colours anyway? See? Our grandfathers managed without them, why shouldn't we? You go ahead and buy that projector! And be happy with it! Good luck, son!

evilkinggumby · Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:49 pm

LOL hey now this wasn't a competition. I wasn't trying to win or out do you.

You made a good point and for those who need a computer monitor, those are actually a REALLY amazing deal for the features you get (and I am sure a lot of folk are totally unaware of these, really).

about 5 or 6 years ago I'd totally jump on it too, but at this point I'm old and my eyes stink so I prefer larger screens to work with just for my eyes sake.

But untimately those monitors are better for detail, resolution, color, contrast and refresh than most any projector David will be looking at. More the issue is they don't let you fold those monitors in half to make them portable..lol.

I do hope David take some pics and shows us what he finally finds to buy.

david · Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:39 am

evilkinggumby wrote:it sounds almost too good to be true, which makes my spidey sense tingle.

@EvilKing and Kwisatz... Yes, I agree and this is why I'm hesitant to commit. There are a few LED projectors on Amazon at my price point, pushing 2,000 to 2,500 lumens, including one with decent feedback scores (but the supplier doesn't deliver to Thailand). They are branded, but not big- name brands of course. Honestly, US$700 for a big-name brand projector that only does about 1,000 lumens doesn't really tempt me much though

It's a well-balanced choice and imho you both make compelling arguments:

Monitor = cost + speed + image quality
VS
Projector = image size + portability

Ok, I'll need to really look into this to get something compelling at a decent price. For the moment I'll sit tight with my money, but I'll be sure to keep you folks in the loop

evilkinggumby · Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:07 am

dang each one of those bundles of cash is like.. 10 projectors.. or 30 of the monitors .. lol...

It is a tricky gambit to navigate, and you really need to consider what is the most importsant to you, and what features are dealbreakers if missing. As well, how long term an investment this is for the cost and if there is a use for what you buy beyond the next few years. I mean if you buy the monitor or projector now but in 3 years you will not bother taking it with you when you move to Borneo, then you'd want to consider whats the best price to pay for the use of something for 3 years. And if you plan to keep it and take it with you when you move, what would make the better long term (useful) item.

That's how I look at larger purchaes. I don't buy stuff, I invest in them. I bought my first real stereo (an old Kenwood 100 watt Pro Logic) back in high school and used it until about when Y2K was big at the millenium. So 1994-99 and then still used it as a secondary stereo. The replacement I got was a Sony 5.1 stereo that I used from 1999 until like 2 years ago. And I still have the sony to use for my art studio.

Meanwhile the original speakers I got back in those days are still with me, a basic pair of $140 3 way floor speakers with 12" woofers (Technics) that have been moved so many times I'm surprised they work. Now they're in my studio. Bought in like 1992 I think.

That's me. I try not to subscribe to the more modern American consumerist notion of disposable electronics.

david · Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:21 am

evilkinggumby wrote:I try not to subscribe to the more modern American consumerist notion of disposable electronics.

In the normal course of things, I'd agree wholeheartedly with you... but with me moving about so much these days, I need equipment that's either mobile or cheap enough to be disposable. Borneo... mmm... tempting

evilkinggumby · Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:37 pm

david wrote:
evilkinggumby wrote:I try not to subscribe to the more modern American consumerist notion of disposable electronics.
In the normal course of things, I'd agree wholeheartedly with you... but with me moving about so much these days, I need equipment that's either mobile or cheap enough to be disposable.

Oh I totally agree. I can only speak for myself and of course my situation is far different than yours. I would never impose a need for you to have the exact same type of stuff I have, it'd be silly. And you likely would want better stuff hehehe

evilkinggumby · Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:36 am

totally had to let Kwisatz know that I reccomended those korean monitors to a friend that does professional graphic design at home and he bought 2. I'll likely get to see em in action next time i visit him, but hopefully they deliver and work as good as they say in the sites. for him, it'll be a REALLY great upgrade from his 22" and 24" monitors.

david · Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:24 am

@EvilKing... excellent stuff, let us know how they look... I'm kind of drooling a bit at the thought of that decent size, high-resolution and those intense colors. Dammit, but I also love having my PC use an entire wall, with a projector. Decisions, decisions... first world problems...

evilkinggumby · Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:42 pm

Well my friend got the 2 monitors and ran into some issues, but he did get it so he can at least use 1 of them.

turns out his radeon 6900 series has 2 dvi-d ports but one is a single link and the other is a dual link, so it can't run both monitors (these require dual to work).

but here is a goofy shot he did to shot the difference. old 24" is on the left, new on the right. I don't think he's even used his calibrator on it to get proper color yet, but it gives you an idea of the design and stuff.

Oh and he also loves the detail/quality/colors on it.

So if you still are considering this, make sure you have a card with DVI out and that it is dual link or you can't use this without getting additional adapters to work off the hdmi on the card.

**also note: most graphics cards with an HDMI out won't output the full 1440p resolution to the monitor at 120hz or even 60hz due to limitations in hdmi 1.4 if you do use a hdmi to DVI adapter.

Oh and all documentation that comes with it is in Korean, so if you need to read the book for anything, learn Korean. It means locating proper drivers won't be easy...

KwisatzHaderach · Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:58 pm

Sorry I missed your latest posts. Even more sorry to hear of the trouble your friend ran into! I hope he finds a way to have it work out via adapters. The design of these monitors isn't really their strong suit and the brightness seems to be a little too much on the photo, but I'm glad he is enjoying the vibrant colours and that he can finally see his right elbow (assuming that is him on the wallpaper

).
At least he doesn't seem to have any issues with back light bleeding, which isn't uncommon with these monitors. If he has, feel free to give him my contact info (he is a registered member of GoaT, RIGHT?!) and I'd be glad to help him fix it.

I don't get the part about HDMI not outputting the full res. I mean, it states clearly on the PLS monitor forums that the monitor won't work with HDMI, but I always thought HDMI had much higher bandwith than DVI...

데이빗, 한국 모니터를 구매해야합니다!

evilkinggumby · Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:19 am

KwisatzHaderach wrote:I don't get the part about HDMI not outputting the full res. I mean, it states clearly on the PLS monitor forums that the monitor won't work with HDMI, but I always thought HDMI had much higher bandwith than DVI...

It depends. I was looking at some posts where someone bought this exact monitors as a match pair and was trying to hook them to their card like my friend si doing, and had the same exact issue. One person suggested getting an hdmi adapter but then folks replied that it might not help. I guess a lot of video cards only have the hdmi 1.4 series port, which only outputs a maximum of about 250hz max, and to do 1440p at 60fps you need about 300hz. I guess for going really high refrresh DVI is the better way to go, but I haven't tested it myself at all.

He has still to calibrate it, and it is brighter but since that is just a simple picture the screens look brighter than they actually do IRL. He hasn't mentioned any kind of backlight bleed but if he starts to notice it I can refer him to your expertise.

He is not on the forums, though he knows about this game. Cause everyone I know is aware of this game. cause I talk about it way too much lol

david · Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:25 am

hey, just to say there is a Monitor Mania event on right now at NewEgg.com... I haven't looked at the details, but there seem to be some good deals there.

They don't deliver to Thailand, shame!

evilkinggumby · Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:08 am

haha they've run some really nice deals lately. I've been slowly upgrading parts in anticipation for building

THE ULTIMATE GHOST OF A TALE COMPUTER

so I'm appreciating what they're offering so far. Don't need a monitor myself, *knock on wood*, but I can say I love that site and they're usually really great for packing and shipping proper, effective and timely.

I just got the power supply i ordered while I was away in California. It came in a big ol plastic toolbox looking thing (complete with tray insire for small parts). I was totally amused as usually when I buy the power supply it's just a regular cardboard box with the PSU and wires and little else.. this thing is a monster.. though it is a hefty one (800 watts) and total overkill.. but I snagged the sale so why not. Plus I need to mail in a rebate for it too..

david · Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:03 am

evilkinggumby wrote:THE ULTIMATE GHOST OF A TALE COMPUTER

Yeah, agreed! I'm also thinking of buying or building something that will run GOAT effortlessly.

evilkinggumby · Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:57 am

david wrote:
evilkinggumby wrote:THE ULTIMATE GHOST OF A TALE COMPUTER
Yeah, agreed! I'm also thinking of buying or building something that will run GOAT effortlessly.

I finally got the last parts yesterday so likely later today/tonight I'll migrate the few parts from the old pc into the new rig and put it together. I'll try and take pics just for fun. Hopefully it all works.

david · Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:11 am

evilkinggumby wrote:I'll try and take pics just for fun.

excellent idea, I'm looking forward to seeing your build!

evilkinggumby · Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:21 am

david wrote:
evilkinggumby wrote:I'll try and take pics just for fun.
excellent idea, I'm looking forward to seeing your build!

Well it's mostly together. Physically I am just waiting on a second memory chip for it (stupid newegg shipped one UPS direct but the other through DHL so it went to a different state before shifting to US postal and then coming to me) so I haven't closed it up and done major work on the software. I at least got the back panel attached again, windows 7 installed (though I have the proper copy to activate incoming in the mail, my friend's copy was out of licenses) and tested it briefly on my old 24" asus 1200p monitor (can slightly see it on the left in the pic behind the case) with Skyrim running at high quality (with a bunch of mods going, though not a lot of super HD ones). And it worked out great as far as I could tell. I still need to mess with overclocking it but the base temp the cpu holds at (even while on and being somewhat used) is about 23C so I will take that as the liquid cooling working.

Quick snapshot of the case at an angle. Sorry for the glare. You can see the corsair liquid coling over the cpu and the radiator attached to the rear case fan. 2 hard disks plus a bluray dvd drive is all it gets for now, but eventually I'll likely get my hands on a decent SSD when I find the right deal.

And of course a big ol 850 watt Power supply. in time if I wanted to get a second evga brand gtx 760 to drop in the case could easily accommodate it at 16x when SLI'd. But I have done the SLI dance before and the fact not all games properly take advantage of the architecture makes me leery of trying it anytime soon. For now the new card should be ok, it has 4gb DDR5 on it and running Skyrim was silky smooth (didn't have fraps going so not sure of framerate) even with weather effects and multiple NPC's and light sources going. I was in Windhelm so I headed to the water and even there it ran fine will all the reflecting and detail. so.. WOO. I think i'll be ok for GoaT lol

(more pics later when it is actually done)

david · Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:36 am

@EvilKing... nice x-ray view... lots of lovely horsepower. I think you'll be ok for GOAT.

Man... I love technology (when it all works)

evilkinggumby · Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:41 am

Ok couple other pics. Front and Back. The side panel is nuttin to look at just black metal with some grille holes, so I won't bother posting that.

Messed with it this weekend playing Elder Scrolls Online a bit and it handled that just fine.

Also used the smart overclock stuff that came with the motherboard to tweak it slightly for now (tweaked it from 4ghz to 4.35 or something) which is decent, but the chip already has a "range" of 4-4.2 clockspeed anyhow so that's not a huge boost. heheheh...

I still have a lot of software to set up but at least got some of the protective stuff in place. Also went and flagged a mess of games on steam to try that I was holding on.

Now.. when do we get to see David pull the trigger and get himself a proper monitor/projector?

david · Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:26 am

@EvilKing... being a technology lover, I'm drooling a bit as I look at your shiny new system

evilkinggumby wrote:when do we get to see David pull the trigger and get himself a proper monitor/projector?

Aha! I have a new solution for this: I'll post a photo soon!

evilkinggumby · Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:06 am

It is running like a champ so far. I also re-purposed the stock heatsink/fan from the new cpu onto my old cpu (as that one's fan was dying) so now the old computer runs quieter and cooler than before. woo.

I've tested it with a number of games and so far the only issue I have seen is screen tearing (even with vsync on) in pre-rendered cinematic cut scenes. In researching, it seems to be a common issue with high end cards, and it doesn't seem to do it during gameplay (turned on triple buffering in tomb raider to help with it) so I'm not too worried. I'm using the system on a 120hz tv so it really SHOULD be able to handle it but I may need to tweak the tv settings (as I may have it configured wrong).

Otherwise, it runs like a champ. I also snagged a cheap but solid 120gb single layer SSD drive for more hardcore gaming and pluggin that into a dock/port on the top of the case. Since it's only a 2.5" drive it fits in there nicely and being in open air, stays nice and cool.

david · Sat May 17, 2014 12:55 am

@EvilKing... It doesn't compare at all with your water-cooled behemoth, but here's my current setup: I use a wireless keyboard and mouse with the Sony Bravia (comes with my rented room in Bangkok) as my monitor... it functions well enough for work and light gaming. These days, I'm playing my recent Steam-sale purchases: Assassin's Creed 3 and Ace Combat: Assault Horizon (both fun so far!)

However my laptop is totally underpowered to run GOAT, so I really do need to upgrade

evilkinggumby · Tue May 20, 2014 12:38 pm

ha thats a pretty solid set up. I like it.

I have done that in hotels too, and really.. it doesn't require buying much of anything (maybe the HDMI?) so kudos to you.

Now you can save and use the set aside money later to get what you really want.

Currently my rig is working out ok. I changed it up a bit and stopped using a VGA wire to my tv and instead have it direct connected with a decent HDMI. It end sup having a lot better clarity, brighter, richer colors, and better overall performance. I never expected a VGA wire would lose so much over a fairly short distance.. but there ya go.

I think my friend is still using the Korean monitors he got, though I don't think he ever invested in a different graphics card that can run both at the same time. So he is using one with his old 24" monitor and keep the extra for emergencies or something? not sure. But it has held up nice.

david · Sat May 24, 2014 7:47 am

evilkinggumby wrote:Now you can save and use the set aside money later to get what you really want.

Exactly!

Yeah, I'm getting good results from HDMI, and I've made a mental note of your experience with VGA for when I upgrade... and though I like using the TV at the moment, when I upgrade I'll absolutely also be considering those Korean monitors and budget projectors